Re: [FW-1] HTTP security sever woes on NG... almost there!

[Anthony Mendoza <anthony@FW1-NOSPAMEMBRACENETWORKS.COM>]

Don wrote:
> <RANT>
>
> Maybe nobody reports it because when we do report it, it takes _6 MONTHS_
> to get them to fix it!
I agree that it is a pain in the rear, but think of it this way,
Checkpoint is a software development company..  if only 1 user reports a
problem, are they going to invest the resources to fix it?  From an
economical standpoint, probably not..  if the problem is reported
officially through their channels and they receive 100s of calls,
they're likely to fix it..

> Although I agree that everyone should have support, I really do not think
> support should be required to get a product to do what it is _SUPPOSED_ to
> do!
I agree in the fullest!  But the reality is that this never happens with
ANY product...  developing with the goal of shipping with 0 bugs is a
software paradigm, it CAN NOT happen because the developers will never
be able to do this...  I happen to be in the IT department of a software
firm and this is the type of stuff I hear from the engineers all the time..

> If there is a problem with the CheckPoint HTTP security server, why
> the hell should I have to pay CheckPoint to be able to report it to them?
> They should be paying me!
I agree here too, but while this is a pain, perhaps only 5% of their
user base uses CVP.  I don't have any real numbers..  This is the same
with Microsoft, they make Win2k Server with loads of features that are
supposed to do all sorts of things...does it?  No...  does any product?
 No...  folks are always going to do something with the product that
was tested...I run into this roadblock all the time and rely on support
(from whatever vendor) to help resolve the issue..  If CVP is really
important for a firm and they are choosing Checkpoint for those
features, they should take the time and do the Evaluation appropriately
and schedule that into implementation..


> Have you ever used Cisco Support?
Yes, and I love it...Cisco is the standard I now hold any company up to
in comparison...

> And when the hell did 50/50 satisfaction with a product become
> acceptable?!?!?!?!?
This isn't acceptable and I may be ditching Checkpoint's for VPN
capabilities when renewal for support comes up in November this year
unless my satisfaction level improves...


> And why not? This is _THEIR_ list. They sure as #^$#$ should be monitoring
> it!
They provide this list for the community, they have no way in knowing
what kludgy way we all have configured our systems..  If I write to the
list with "My VPN doesn't work with blah blah blah", there's no way for
them to track this to resolution...likewise.. they have limited staff..
 I would rather have that staff helping me since I paid for support
then helping folks on a mailing list that may not even be qualified to
be installing and administering the product...as you've probably seen
there are some folks that write to this list where you question why they
are even touching the firewall..

> This is a load of #$^%#. CVP has never worked very well. People have been
> complaining since 3.x days about CVP. CheckPoint knows there are issues
> with CVP and has _never_ done anything to significantly improve the
> problems.
Well, I can't say anything about that since I don't know the history of
CVP..., but as an aside, you have to do the PC thing and push this upon
whomever you purchased your product from (Reseller/VAR/etc...) as they
have direct contacts within Checkpoint..  for example, I moaned enough o
my reseller and I was able to meet with a Checkpoint SE, and Product
Manager to get issues resolved.  Our implementation is tiny also, 2
gateways, a 50-ip and 100-ip...so the size of our implementation had no
relevance to the support I've been getting..  to tell you the truth, my
reseller has been an integral part in ensuring I receive good support.
This is something everyone has to be aware of..  choosing a good VAR
that has a good relationship will get you far...  this is in general
too, not just with checkpoint..  again, this is not something that is
"right", I agree with Don, that this stuff SHOULD work.  I've come to
the reality that it DOES NOT though..  and so, have worked to make my
experience with enterprise products good, by making the right
relationships to ease my pain and suffering along the way..


> You have clearly had much better luck with CP support the rest of us. It
> has never been worth my time to call them.
Not really, my first 2 experiences were horrible, but I was able to get
my matters escalated and the past few haven't been as bad.  Their
support is why I'm 50/50 on their product.  They have work to do in this
area..

> No, but peers can tell you if there _is_ a bug in the product. Or at least
> if they have seen similar behavior.
True...
--
Anthony Mendoza
IT & Customer Support
anthony@embracenetworks.com
t:/ c:p:/ f:

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