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RE: [FW1] Use of this list




Agree that without Daemon and Lance I would be stuffed !

However, I could really use:-

a) A decent Checkpoint book (or series of books - a la Microsoft - okay I hate them as well but at least you get a few books ;-)   ) - with details on VPN etc...
b) An update professional online resource (CP should be it but aint)

I for one would be prepared to pay for these services - in fact a paid for service would (hopefully!) mean some form of SLA etc...

I think CP have a vested interested in getting people to pay for consultancy to solve the same problems we all have over and over again when what most of us need is good qaulity reference material - warts & all (i.e. "yeah - in theory you can use this function but it doesn't work properly and your life will be hell....").
Presumably it is the promise of consultancy $ that keeps CP resellers in line.

To offer a balanced view, sometimes consultancy is needed (or even desirable) for several reasons but it would be nice if that need was at Step 5 in the process rather than Step 1 or 2 !

...sorry...don't often feel the need to moan but it has been one of those weeks

- looks like I picked the wrong week to give up bog snorkelling...   ;-)


Tim


Steve Moran <[email protected]>
Sent by: [email protected]

23/05/01 18:01

       
        To:        "'[email protected]'" <[email protected]>, "'[email protected]'" <[email protected]>
        cc:        
        Subject:        RE: [FW1] Use of this list




If any body is going to bag on anyone, it ought to be CP for not releasing
any real documentation on their product, Daemon and Lance rock! No one makes
them maintain this information source, and they never claimed to the end-all
be-all source of information.
The lists and sites are meant to be a free source of information, like other
things you get what you pay for, so if you don't like it piss off.  But we
don't need to hear whining about it.  If these resources save your ass even
once, you win.

from phoneboy-

Your corrections, suggestions, and submissions are welcome. Email to
[email protected].

If you don't like his search engine, build him a better one.
Finally its obvious Sid hasn't spent much time at Phoneboy, or he would have
found the link to Lance's site.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Cunningham [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 4:07 PM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: RE: [FW1] Use of this list



Phoneboy=Not Bad

Hell, try building your own FAQ site and see how long it takes you.
Nothing like insulting people that spend there own time trying to help you.
Go buy checkpoint support if you don't like the free sites.

Ever thought of hitting the links hyperlink on phoneboy???????
You will be amazed at the resources available from that links page. Lance's
is there.
Archives at www.securepoint.com

Me , I greatly appreciate Daemon, Chris , Lance et al for providing such
resources.

Dean

-----Original Message-----
From: Sid Van den Heede [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, 22 May 2001 1:40 AM
To: Reed Mohn, Anders
Cc: 'Paul Murphy'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [FW1] Use of this list



What's missing is a good resource site.  I know about phoneboy, from reading
the list.  While phoneboy is not bad, it's not great.  Too many times I have
tried to use it and failed to find what I need.  Part of the problem is the
lack of a search engine.  I can search for a single word, but what about
searching for a phrase, or for documents that contain multiple words, such
as
"linux and kmalloc"?  I just end up with tons of irrelevant documents.  Also
much of the information is dated.

What about Lance Spitzner's site?  Where is it?  Is it more useful?

Are there any other sites?  Who knows?  Nobody in this thread mentioned
any.  It's not in the trailer of the message (only how to unsubscribe).

Checkpoint runs this mailing list.  Is there any hope of getting them to
help
by including a pointer to a page that lists resources?  Would they be
interested in providing a FAQ/resource site that can be maintained by their
customers?  Probably not.  That's why there are sites like phoneboy.  The
vendor's interests lie elsewhere, and sites like phoneboy fill the gap.

Is it time to move the list off of Checkpoint's server and onto a
customer-run
site, like many others do?  (With the volume, I certainly would not be the
first to volunteer resources, however. :-( )

In summary, I think we need to find a way to improve resources if we want to
see the list volume reduced.  Suggestions?

On Fri, 18 May 2001, Reed Mohn, Anders wrote:

> Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:21:49 +0200
> From: "Reed Mohn, Anders" <[email protected]>
> To: 'Paul Murphy' <[email protected]>,
>      [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [FW1] Use of this list
>
>
>
> I generally like to send answers to FAQs,
> i.e. questions we see about x-hundred times daily,
> privately, just to keep the discussion off the list.
> And, of course, with the answer, a reference to an archive, Phoneboy,
> Lance Spitzner or some other net resource.
>
> Also, there's an extreme lag in this list lately,
> it takes ages from when I send, to when the message appears
> on the list. Don't know why, but generally, if I reply immediately
> to a posting, by the time my message is sent out through the list,
> there's about 20 other replies already out there.
> Thus, if I believe many others will answer a question, too, I sometimes
> send my reply privately, because (I think) it is likely that most people
on
> the
> list won't benefit much from it anyway.
>
> Maybe I'm wrong, you do have a point: answers to "extreme" FAQ should
maybe
> always be posted to the list, just to make it obvious to everyone
> what the answer is, and that they should have looked elsewhere for it.
> I've posted quite a few obvious "RTFM"-ones myself, could probably need
> a reminder once in a while...
>
> How about posting an index, say of all the questions answered on Phoneboy,
> to the list once in a while?
>
> Cheers,
> Anders :)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Murphy [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: 17. mai 2001 17:38
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [FW1] Use of this list
>
>
>
>
> I have noticed in my own interactions with this list that many people tend
> to respond privately to questions or otherwise that are posted.
>
> I am sure that I am not the only one who views relevant questions from
> others and look for responses to those questions.
>
> If the responses are private, this must surely lead to the same questions
> being asked over and over.
>
> Else the dreaded "me too!" posts where multiple emails in response to the
> original get posted so that anyone who can help will respond to all
> interested parties.
>
> If something has not been covered in the archives, then surely the best
for

> all concerned is that responses should go to the list until it is
pertinent
> to take the dialog offlist?
>
> I do however understand that some people will not want to respond
publically
> regardless.
>
> Any comments?
>
>
> Paul Murphy.
>
>
>
>
>
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